I got the following info and link from my previous AIDS doc in NYC who is quoted inside this link - America has yet to accept/advertise the information (no surprise) but Swiss/European studies show CONDOM FREE sex is safe *if * . . . HIV+ person has no viral load for > 6 months, is on meds and monitored regularly, and no active STD co-infections. It''s a little imbedded in the page - look about 1/2 way down for the straight dope:
mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2008_0...ve.html
mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2008_0...ve.html
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 1:09 PMHey!
We ran an article on this topic in the International Carnival of Pozitivities last month. There is some controversy over the results of this study, but it is nice to have a point of departure for discussion.
One thing to consider is the flux in viral load that might occur over a 24 hour period. I am not sure that it is like the cd4 count, but if so, that could be a point of concern. I know that the cd4 count can fluctuate by 100s of points in a 24 hour period, depending on factors such as alcohol comsumption or concomitant illness. I think that the study indicated that the viral load should be below 40-60 copies/ml. If it fluctuates daily, then how would we ever know exactly where our viral load falls? I suspect that a couple of good questions for our own docs are a) does the viral load fluctuate wildly from day to day and b) should we perhaps avoid condom-free sex when we are feeling under the weather in any way. I also suspect that condom-free sex is only advocated for sero-compatible partners. After all, isn't the risk of infecting someone one loves just too great otherwise? I am interested to hear other's opinions on this topic.
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Wed, March 19, 2008 - 11:04 PMafter my husband of 13 years died, i wrapped my mind around a condom fairly easily.
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sat, March 22, 2008 - 1:34 AMWe have watched the various studies with great interest as well.
What we have decided is not to risk infection with either each other or another by using condoms and other safe guards.
Education, Honesty and Responsibility for one's actions is key to preventing spread of a virus.
... it's like handling a gun - assume it is loaded.
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sat, March 22, 2008 - 5:00 PMI'd LOVE to tell all my negative fuckbuddies that we can ditch the glove and really feel the love. I haven't read the study yet, so I'm jumping in half-cocked and hopeful, but if it's true, I'm going to celebrate. My viral load's been pretty consistently undetectable for almost 12 years. For now, I'll proceed with caution until more information is available, but there are a lot of people and organizations that depend on keeping us afraid for their own agendas. Wouldn't it be great not to feel like a diseased pariah anymore, just a plain old pariah? -
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sat, March 22, 2008 - 5:04 PMCould someone post a working link, please? -
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This post was deleted by *)))Travis(((*
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 4:02 PMoops sorry those links didn't work and i don't know how to delete that reply . . . -
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 4:10 PMi'll get it for you. do post the links if you can find them.
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 11:14 AMMine stays wrapped.
As one who has been "undetectable" for many years, I’ve asked my doctor more than once if this means I’m also reasonably undetectable in fluids other than blood. His response (pro-sex as he is) has been steadfastly, "No." Most studies look at viral load in the blood, but few (especially in the U.S. where we remain squeamish about things sexual) study HIV in other fluids, such as semen.
Until I see a body of sound research that correlates viral load in blood to viral load in semen, I will remain leery of studies that suggest low viral count indicates low risk of transmission. -
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 4:02 PMMine stays wrapped too. -
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Unsu...
Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Sun, March 23, 2008 - 9:24 PMI dunno guys. This seems a bit premature or not thought out as my radar just went up...
Also, almost every time I so much as kiss a guy hard, I get some weird-o sore throat thing that lasts 2 days. Not always, but more times than not.
I guess what I'm saying is that guy's have cooties.
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 2:52 AMOf the body fluids that have sufficient viral load to transmit HIV, blood has the highest. So load count in the blood stream will be the most accurate. The virus does hang out in organs, but if it is in the organs and not the blood or semen, at time of fluid exchange then that virus copy does not leave the body of the person carrying it.
The HIV virus does not fluctuate in amount within a 24 hour period as does the CD4 count. It can increase in times of illness. Where there is an infection there will be a higher concentration of the HIV virus, cause the virus is looking for white blood cells and there will be a high concentration of white blood cells present at the sight of an infection. This is why STDs increase the risk of transmission.
There has been a study done in SF, looking at cross infection between 2 positives, and in their large study they had not cross infection. They reviewed the small handful of cross infections that are known around the world to see how they differed from those in the study, as well as what these know cases had in common, and what they found was that cross infection happened within the 1st year of a persons infection. The conclusion of the SF study was that after 3 years of having the virus a persons own immune system has been able to keep the virus in check, if a new virus enters the body, that immune system attacks it and prevents it from taking hold.
As for undetectable viral load, they may be on to something there. This is a very weak virus, and a person's immune system can effectively kill the invading virus before it is able to replicate. Then a person does not become positive. (We all know someone who was exposed to HIV and never tested positive.) The fewer number of virus being transmitted give the immune system a better chance to effectively defeating the virus.
In addition, all studies show that infection is happening from those individuals who are with in and up to that first year of infection. This is true for many reasons. Many may still believe they are negative because their last HIV test said they were. That test may not capture that person's HIV status for various reasons (they are within the window period, they were exposed after they were tested, etc...). Also at this time a person is most infectious because this is when the virus is replicating at an extreme rate. The other period of time when the virus is replicating at an extreme rate is in the later stages of a person' s infection and they have scummed to illness.
There is no guarantee either way, that transmission and infection will happen or that it will not happen. There is a continuum of risk when HIV is present. This risk is from very low to very high, but there is not 100%.
It is up to everyone involved to determine how much risk they are or are not willing to take.
Tommie Barnes
I worked as an HIV Test Counselor, HIV/STD Educator, and Assistant program coordinator within the field of HIV/STD prevention education, from 2004 - 2007.
I am now working as a Spiritual Counselor, myauthenticself.com -
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 9:51 AMi appreciate the information for us, but i still, steadfastly, reccomend everyone keep it wrapped. -
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 12:00 PMYes, thanks for the detailed info. I have heard that there is no correlation between blood and semen levels of the virus. Any word on that?
Sean Strubb of POZ wrote a response to this article. Basically, he advised caution in moving too quickly to discount the study or to embrace it. It seems that there is a perception that more study is needed before behaviors are changed, but that this is encouraging news for many. It also probably makes a lot of us uncomfortable...or concerned, to be more accurate.
To me, any risk of infection on the 1-100% continuum is too great to risk for someone you care about, but that is just my take on the situation.
Ron
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Re: NEWS FLASH!! HIV does not transmit sexually without a viral load . . . .
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 5:03 PM>I'd LOVE to tell all my negative fuckbuddies that we can ditch the glove and really feel the love. I haven't read the study yet, so I'm jumping in half-cocked and hopeful, but if it's true, I'm going to celebrate. My viral load's been pretty consistently undetectable for almost 12 years. For now, I'll proceed with caution until more information is available, but there are a lot of people and organizations that depend on keeping us afraid for their own agendas. Wouldn't it be great not to feel like a diseased pariah anymore, just a plain old pariah? <
Thats good that you don't bareback with them or anything like that.
